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User avatar
By DMarley
#406379
Felix wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:29 pm
whoa...talk about "get me down from here!!!"
downwind landing too?
Yeah, kinda looks like a downwind approach by the lack of him slowing down much. However, the wind cone indicator that he flew over was indicating a reasonably strong headwind. I'm thinking he encountered a good bit of rotor that might have back-winded him, originating from the upwind trees. Or the vid merely makes it appear he was flying with enough airspeed. He is pushing out hard the last second before impact. So perhaps he missed his window of opportunity with a little rotor mixed in for fun.
User avatar
By Wonder Boy
#406381
Just a slow, unprepared approach.
Arms are almost fully extended 2+ secs before impact. (cant flare with your body aft already)
If he flared when he started pushing out, it may have been a better outcome.

Side note: take no confidence in wheels :roll:
User avatar
By hs
#406386
Take off the wheels so you don't have that landing option. Get upright so your ready to land, less speed at altitude and more speed approaching ground.
User avatar
By Paul H
#406387
hs wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:48 am
Take off the wheels so you don't have that landing option. ............
.....and take your helmet off and take the 'chute out of your harness. You don't need those "options", either.
User avatar
By Tormod
#406388
Uphill, headwind behind treeline, it's like flying into a hole in the air. A decent outcome considering the conditions being way over this guys head. Also those small, thin wheels are no good on anything else than a hard surface, the glider stopped within a half meter after touch down.
User avatar
By lizzard
#406394
Everybody is different but there are some days just like that one when everything is like being in a tumble dryer . While it may have smoothed out higher , It often does not. This is from lots of trike flying and tinne 3 axis where i have tried to get above it. Often it has gotten worse with altitude.


It usually only lasts a day or 2 but we have to accept that the air we fly in, is sometimes not worth being in.
Weight shift aircraft have limits and this is a good example . Even a 3 axis would b uncomfortable .
Thanks for sharing .
If you have not yet encountered these conditions ....you will eventually.
Any un scathed landing is a good one in these conditions .
User avatar
By Sford
#406399
While watching the video, I noticed something that I struggle to overcome when in similar conditions. When I can overcome it, the glider flys better. Namely, if you watch the video closely, the lines supporting the shoulders go slack often and he goes more head up when he pulls in to correct in the rowdy air. In my experience, this puts some of the pilot weight on the base tube ...... the net result is a split CG and less control authority over the wing. Roll control gets a bit sticky and corrections can become an ugly series with the pilot behind them and can lead to PIO.

I try really hard to keep all of my weight on the hang strap. I might cleat head up a bit to help that as well. I also concentrate on a lat pull rather than a tricep pull when pulling in. And I try to keep ahead on the corrections with aggressive bump-center to avoid the PIO issue.

I think that I would of pulled a bit more VG while up high as well.

No doubt the air he was in was rowdy. But I think that his weighting the base tube often made it worse during a number of the corrections. Just my two cents based on something that I fight from time to time.

SF
User avatar
By yoepaca
#406438
Hey Bro thanks for sharing. Show me your's I'll show you mine Levico-Terme, Italy.

Things mellowed out over the valley at about 100m agl. Smooth conditions after that, normal landing. I got to launch in what looked like perfect conditions. I wondered why there wasn't any locals flying on a nice sunny Friday afternoon, I was at the launch all by myself. Guess I got my answer.
By kan-glider
#406442
yoepaca;

Yeah, that looks like a normal summer mid-afternoon flight for us here in central Kansas USA. With the proper precautions, flying in this kind of turbulence (up high) can be safe enough and quite exciting, though exhausting. The real problem, of course, is the turbulence near the ground during launch and landing. After all, nobody ever collided with the sky!

What will keep us from flying then is too much wind coupled with gusty conditions near the ground. Our wind limits are; if the maximum wind gust plus the ambient wind equals or exceeds stall speed, then we don't fly. If the wind is excessively "switchy", then we don't fly.

Also, we won't fly if we see numerous dust-devils around the area. Since this area is prone to dust-devils, we take them VERY seriously. I consider dust-devils to be one of the most dangerous aspects of our flying in this area. We always assume that some kind of dust-devil could be present, though we rarely see them in the winter. Often they are "invisible" because of the crop cover etc. There are signs though. We have numerous ways of mitigating the dust-devil hazard:

- Don't fly if they are visibly numerous. The visible ones are always very strong and show good "sign" (dust, plant/crop debris, swirling and/or very turbulent thrashing of the crop tops). Numerous times we have just decided against flying because of this and all gone home!

- We place a bunch of wind streamers throughout the launching/landing zone and won't launch if they ALL aren't pointing and behaving consistently. Inconsistent streamers show that turbulence IS there in that critical zone.

- We always make our landing approaches at a VERY fast airspeed from 300' AGL or so on down into ground effect. This allows us to "punch through" any such turbulence and still retain energy and control enough afterward to do a safe landing. Also, you "punch through" any wind gradient and still retain good control and energy. During this high-speed descent down to ground effect, I have found, for myself, that it's best to stay prone, and keep my hands on the control bar for best control of speed and steering. Then, early on in the ground effect period, I smoothly transition to the downtubes; at least that's my intent. It's also important to not balloon-up during this transition. Doing the transition early in the ground effect period gives you lots of time to do it deliberately and smoothly. You don't have to be rushed, as you would if you waited until later on when you're slow and close to landing.

- Someone on the ground (usually the tow operator) watches out for the pilot before and during the landing approach. If necessary, the ground person will inform the pilot by radio when he sees signs of a dust-devil, or a big wind shift. We don't assume that the pilot may have seen the same thing. With this important last-minute information, the pilot can adjust his landing pattern to steer well clear of this hazard.

Let's say that we have evaluated all of the above and have decided to fly. If the conditions are anything other than easy-peasy, one of our most experienced pilots, who also has a lot of current towing experience, will be the first to launch (PL or ST). It is his job to assess the situation and report back to the rest of us. Numerous times certain pilots (myself included) have been advised not to fly (until later) when things calm down a bit. The word "advise" is maybe too weak a word - we simply won't launch that person in this case.

Of course, we are repeatedly evaluating the conditions during the day as we fly. If any of the aforementioned conditions exceed our limits, we stop flying and go home.

Anyways, that's my take on the turbulence issue.

Fly safe

Doug
User avatar
By red
#406446
mark selner wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:06 pm
looked good ....need to turn in the lift.... :)
Campers,

That is often (but not always) a good way to handle turbulence. Sometimes the best (and smoothest) air on a rowdy day is inside the thermals. You do not need to banked up, cranked up, and clawing for altitude just because you are in a nice thermal. You can also (instead) be cruising upward in nice(r) air, not seeking the strong core, and just enjoying the ride. When you do finally leave the thermal, you may find that the air is rather reasonable, higher up. If not, you can always find a nice column of sinking air and core that sink back down, if need be. It's more likely that you can have a fine high flight, while other pilots are getting kicked around the sky as they bee-line for the LZ, and wondering what you must be made of. 8)

Next, I want to put in a plug here for some "go with the flow" flying strategy. I see a lot of pilots fighting to correct for every little bump. That's okay when you are working close to the hills, but once you are up in the clear, you can afford to just relax and let it flow. Relax the arms (maybe not the hands), and don't try to correct for each bump. It's likely the next left bump will cancel out the first right bump, and if it does not, just wait a bit and correct for two or three left bumps with one big course correction, instead of a lot of little corrections. You will be able to fly much longer without becoming exhausted by all the nervous inputs.

As always, your own judgment, not mine, should prevail on any given day. Just a thought, for your consideration.
User avatar
By Wonder Boy
#406448
I like to accept its a rough day and work it best I can. I sure dont want to land midday :shock: :wink:
"Sometimes" climbing out and getting to a different area it can be smoother.
"your mileage may vary"

User avatar
By yoepaca
#406451
mark selner wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 9:06 pm
looked good ....need to turn in the lift.... :)
There is a reasonable explanation for that. I had no doubt in my mind I could have made cloud base, easily. The turbulence didn't bother me. However I was searching for sink. First time I wanted to hear the sink alarm during a flight. I had to get down quickly. I made it to launch 3 hours late due to traffic on the drive down. I planned to launch earlier at 12:30-1 and be at the lz with my glider packed and ready for a friend to meet me at 3 and take me back up to launch and retrieve my car. Then we'd continue on to Bassano. My friend called right before 3 from the lz right before I launched wondering where I was and pretty pissed I wasn't there yet since he had a bushiness meeting at 4:30 an hour away. I didn't know this and thought he'd be late as well due to the same traffic trouble since he came down the same route a few hours behind me, not the case, he was there on time, my buddy, reliable. Guess I should have called him before setting up at launch, my bad. So I launched planning a quick sled ride down but had trouble getting down quickly to make it to my p.o.'d Italian buddy waiting on me. If you know Levico you can see his lone van in the lz. What should have been about a 7 min sled run turned into over 20min. Hence I didn't turn in the lift and flew through it, much to my chagrin. I even crossed the valley towards the large shadow on the other side hoping that would get me down quicker. Traffic robbed me of what could have been an epic flight for me.

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